Since the 1960s, global GDP has grown rapidly and living standards have reached record highs. But others are also surging. It’s carbon emissions. For years, scientists and economists have asked whether it is possible to grow without heating or polluting the planet. And as the climate becomes more unstable, the problem becomes more urgent. Madeleine Finlay hears from two economists who argue for a change in how we measure the success of countries. Nick Stern is Professor of Economics and Government at the London School of Economics and an advocate for green growth, an approach to growth that prioritizes green industries. Jason Hickel is a political economist and professor at the Autonomous University of Barcelona who advocates degrowth and shrinking parts of the economy that do not achieve social and ecological goals.